Today feels like a good day for a piggy back post, so I'm going to go off of Deb's post about last night's CWC meeting. One of the best things about a critique group that works is that problems get solved. There are always problems in drafts, whether it's a character, a scene, or bit of dialogue, there are things that need fixing. That's why it's called a draft, right?
Last night I was on the chopping block for the 2nd submission of the Cass book, and I knew the gang was going to comment on one particular thing. As part of getting people where they needed to be, I had to figure out a reason for them to be at a funeral, despite it being dangerous for one of the characters to be out in public. I thought about it, and played around with it, and tried so hard to figure out a good reason to get them all there. The best I could come up with wasn't really a good reason, but I couldn't figure anything else out.
When it came to my turn to get critiqued, Jenny started. Basically, she said, "Yeah, this part... it's not working."
I said, "Tell me about it."
Then Shane said, "Well, what if..." And there it was, exactly what I needed. It was simple, it was perfect, and I never even got close to figuring it out on my own. Writers groups can be a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Showing posts with label Writers Groups. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Writers Groups. Show all posts
Tuesday, June 30, 2009
Wednesday, June 3, 2009
You, Me, and the Power of We
This month, in honor of working with my committee to revise & defend my thesis, is all about collaboration.
Writers, as Jenny has often commented, are strange creatures because we like to form these critique groups which means we get all excited about actually helping our competition, other writers. Of course, the more we critique others, the better we get at our own writing, so it's not entirely selfless.
In any event, this month I challenge you to step up your collaboration. Go above and beyond your normal level of getting other people engaged in your work, and vice versa. Maybe now's the time to try co-writing something. Maybe now's the time to have someone who's never read your work offer their thoughts on it. Or, speaking of critique groups, now would be the perfect time to recruit someone new to join the critique group you belong to.
Think about it and find a way to get more people involved. You never know who will be the person to come up with that great idea that totally fixes your novel's conflict and turns it from blah to brilliant.
Writers, as Jenny has often commented, are strange creatures because we like to form these critique groups which means we get all excited about actually helping our competition, other writers. Of course, the more we critique others, the better we get at our own writing, so it's not entirely selfless.
In any event, this month I challenge you to step up your collaboration. Go above and beyond your normal level of getting other people engaged in your work, and vice versa. Maybe now's the time to try co-writing something. Maybe now's the time to have someone who's never read your work offer their thoughts on it. Or, speaking of critique groups, now would be the perfect time to recruit someone new to join the critique group you belong to.
Think about it and find a way to get more people involved. You never know who will be the person to come up with that great idea that totally fixes your novel's conflict and turns it from blah to brilliant.
Friday, March 6, 2009
Under Pressure
The latest show that I've gotten into is Hell's Kitchen. Last night, I couldn't help but think like Jenny was a while back with Top Chef. That it'd be interesting to translate the show. The specific dynamics of it are fascinating, especially watching Ramsay watch the contestants.
Now, a large part of the show isn't just about individual performances, but about making the individuals work together. That's where it all comes out in the wash. So, if we do a writing version it wouldn't be able to just be writers doing their own things, it would have to be group-based. So, I'm thinking some kind of collaborative setting. Maybe a Hell's Magazine. Each of the writers would, instead of working different stations in the kitchen, work different articles and/or different types of editing.
Or maybe a Hell's Critique Group. That one could be fun. We'd find a writing equivalent of Ramsay who would watch over each critique session and have fits, screaming things like, "Hey, you. You come here. Read that dialogue out loud. That dialogue is F*ing despicable. F*ing terrible! I wouldn't serve that dialogue to my dog." And then he'd throw the manuscript at somebody's head.
Then, after the elimination, there would be all the pettiness of, "Yeah, she can't write a strong protagonist to save her life," and "I can write circles around everybody here. Everybody. That's why they give me dirty looks, it's just 'cause they're so intimidated by me."
It'd be awesome.
Now, a large part of the show isn't just about individual performances, but about making the individuals work together. That's where it all comes out in the wash. So, if we do a writing version it wouldn't be able to just be writers doing their own things, it would have to be group-based. So, I'm thinking some kind of collaborative setting. Maybe a Hell's Magazine. Each of the writers would, instead of working different stations in the kitchen, work different articles and/or different types of editing.
Or maybe a Hell's Critique Group. That one could be fun. We'd find a writing equivalent of Ramsay who would watch over each critique session and have fits, screaming things like, "Hey, you. You come here. Read that dialogue out loud. That dialogue is F*ing despicable. F*ing terrible! I wouldn't serve that dialogue to my dog." And then he'd throw the manuscript at somebody's head.
Then, after the elimination, there would be all the pettiness of, "Yeah, she can't write a strong protagonist to save her life," and "I can write circles around everybody here. Everybody. That's why they give me dirty looks, it's just 'cause they're so intimidated by me."
It'd be awesome.
Saturday, March 29, 2008
Conversations
"How are the thesis stories coming along? Or are you playing since it's spring break?"
-Deb
This week I've chatted with both Deb and Jenny about the thesis. In response to Deb's question, I said I'd written one complete thesis story and developed ideas for two more. Actually, now I've got ideas for three more. It's exciting. It's also funny that I didn't realize how much I'd gotten done until I told her. That's when I had my moment of "Hey, look at that."
With Jenny, we talked not only about the thesis, but also about the writers group. I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's time to pull out. I find myself spending more and more time on other people's writing and less and less time on my own.
Then I got "A friendly reminder from your friendly neighborhood VP" e-mail from John. He seems to think that since my group dues are due, I ought to hand over money. Crazy.
Thus, we arrive at this morning and two decisions.
1. I'm withdrawing from the formal group and going to just do The Pirates now.
2. I'm shifting my approach to my goals this month.
We'll see how it goes.
-Deb
This week I've chatted with both Deb and Jenny about the thesis. In response to Deb's question, I said I'd written one complete thesis story and developed ideas for two more. Actually, now I've got ideas for three more. It's exciting. It's also funny that I didn't realize how much I'd gotten done until I told her. That's when I had my moment of "Hey, look at that."
With Jenny, we talked not only about the thesis, but also about the writers group. I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's time to pull out. I find myself spending more and more time on other people's writing and less and less time on my own.
Then I got "A friendly reminder from your friendly neighborhood VP" e-mail from John. He seems to think that since my group dues are due, I ought to hand over money. Crazy.
Thus, we arrive at this morning and two decisions.
1. I'm withdrawing from the formal group and going to just do The Pirates now.
2. I'm shifting my approach to my goals this month.
We'll see how it goes.
Sunday, March 16, 2008
That Packs Idea...
Dan Lazar made a comment about good writers running in packs. Then there's that song that goes "It's a small world after all..."
The more I learn about the writers I like, the more I find out they're connected to other writers I like. It's remarkable. I fall in love with Terry Pratchett books, then find out about Neil Gaiman. I listen to GBS and TOFOG albums over and over again, then hear about Russell Crowe's latest project, which was produced by none other than Alan Doyle. It's a beautiful, twisty knot.
Lately, I've been watching episode after episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshit (a liberal dose of profanity and attention-grabbing gimmicks, but more often than not I do a lot of nodding when I watch). The other day Neil makes a comment on his blog about his friend Penn Jillette. Go figure.
P.S. If you haven't watched the show yet, I highly recommend it.
The more I learn about the writers I like, the more I find out they're connected to other writers I like. It's remarkable. I fall in love with Terry Pratchett books, then find out about Neil Gaiman. I listen to GBS and TOFOG albums over and over again, then hear about Russell Crowe's latest project, which was produced by none other than Alan Doyle. It's a beautiful, twisty knot.
Lately, I've been watching episode after episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshit (a liberal dose of profanity and attention-grabbing gimmicks, but more often than not I do a lot of nodding when I watch). The other day Neil makes a comment on his blog about his friend Penn Jillette. Go figure.
P.S. If you haven't watched the show yet, I highly recommend it.
Friday, March 14, 2008
We're Covered
Andy, Jo, and I trekked over to the art/music building yesterday to have another consultation for the H. Eye cover. The abstract cover got redone in two color schemes and it took us about three minutes to decide on one of those versions as our pick. Viola! We have a cover for next year (this year's was already decided last year).
Within maybe a week or so we'll have our new and improved website available for the public eye. I'm excited. It's all feeling so official and professional right now.
Also in H. Eye news: We've been talking about starting a workshopping group through the magazine and our tentative launch date is going to be next month. I'm hoping we can get this workable and pull in enough interest to build a good group.
Within maybe a week or so we'll have our new and improved website available for the public eye. I'm excited. It's all feeling so official and professional right now.
Also in H. Eye news: We've been talking about starting a workshopping group through the magazine and our tentative launch date is going to be next month. I'm hoping we can get this workable and pull in enough interest to build a good group.
Friday, February 1, 2008
First Peer Review
Today in 101, my students worked on their first peer reviews. Everybody brought copies of the rough draft of their first formal essay. I made goldenrod colored copies of a peer review guide.
Then I explained extra credit to them:
I'm going to take the grades everyone in your group receives on their final draft and average them out. If your group average isn't at a certain minimum, then there is not effect on your grade. If it is above a certain minimum, everybody in your group gets extra points. This is why it behooves you to be a good peer reviewer.
That said, they set to work and for the next forty five minutes the only sounds in the class were paper noises and the occasional student who had a question for me. The best part was, as I walked around and looked over people's shoulders, I saw people writing whole paragraphs of comments on the peer review forms. It was beautiful.
I love collaboration.
Then I explained extra credit to them:
I'm going to take the grades everyone in your group receives on their final draft and average them out. If your group average isn't at a certain minimum, then there is not effect on your grade. If it is above a certain minimum, everybody in your group gets extra points. This is why it behooves you to be a good peer reviewer.
That said, they set to work and for the next forty five minutes the only sounds in the class were paper noises and the occasional student who had a question for me. The best part was, as I walked around and looked over people's shoulders, I saw people writing whole paragraphs of comments on the peer review forms. It was beautiful.
I love collaboration.
Sunday, November 18, 2007
November Blur
I can't believe how quickly this month has gone by/is going by. Sheesh, the writers group meeting is this coming weekend already and I've barely touched the submission pile. So much for tackling it this week.
Thanksgiving is almost here, then comes the Christmas onslaught and before we know it, it's 2008. Whew. I better hurry up and figure out what December's challenge is going to be, because I haven't a clue yet.
I keep reminding myself that I have the whole week off of school, but the reality hasn't sunk in yet. Even so, thanks to calling in sick last night because of this pesky cold, I'm now rounding my second day of being home all day and I'm already getting restless. I don't do well with extended periods of time and nothing particular to do. This, despite my complaints of having no time all the time. Funny, isn't it?
Thanksgiving is almost here, then comes the Christmas onslaught and before we know it, it's 2008. Whew. I better hurry up and figure out what December's challenge is going to be, because I haven't a clue yet.
I keep reminding myself that I have the whole week off of school, but the reality hasn't sunk in yet. Even so, thanks to calling in sick last night because of this pesky cold, I'm now rounding my second day of being home all day and I'm already getting restless. I don't do well with extended periods of time and nothing particular to do. This, despite my complaints of having no time all the time. Funny, isn't it?
Tuesday, October 9, 2007
A Novel Trend
"Two pages does not a chapter make."
-Critique of my first novel submissions
When I first started submitting Oracle to the group, I had major pacing problems. Now, a couple of years later, I realize that I'm not the only one. In our big batch of group submisions there were two new novels being newly submitted. Both are rushed, and they aren't the only writers who've come through the group to do this. Weird.
I can't help but wonder what the big rush is. Are we just in a hurry to get done so we can say we've done it? Are we trying to pace ourselves and not put too much into one chapter for fear of neglecting the others? Is it an issue of being intimidated by writing something novel length? Or, are we just trying to cram too much in?
What helped me was making the novel into a movie in my head, then trying to translate that movie into what I wrote. The firmer things like scenery, props, gestures, costuming, etc. were in my head, the better I was at expanding scenes and slowing the heck down. It goes back to that idea of "show, don't tell." I had to show people the movie in my head, vs. tell them the story about the movie. That was my lightbulb moment. It still took a few months of practice before I could get the pacing about right, but I did get there.
Now we have two more people telling us about the movie, and getting them to show it will be quite the trick. Anyone have thoughts on other ways to explain pacing?
-Critique of my first novel submissions
When I first started submitting Oracle to the group, I had major pacing problems. Now, a couple of years later, I realize that I'm not the only one. In our big batch of group submisions there were two new novels being newly submitted. Both are rushed, and they aren't the only writers who've come through the group to do this. Weird.
I can't help but wonder what the big rush is. Are we just in a hurry to get done so we can say we've done it? Are we trying to pace ourselves and not put too much into one chapter for fear of neglecting the others? Is it an issue of being intimidated by writing something novel length? Or, are we just trying to cram too much in?
What helped me was making the novel into a movie in my head, then trying to translate that movie into what I wrote. The firmer things like scenery, props, gestures, costuming, etc. were in my head, the better I was at expanding scenes and slowing the heck down. It goes back to that idea of "show, don't tell." I had to show people the movie in my head, vs. tell them the story about the movie. That was my lightbulb moment. It still took a few months of practice before I could get the pacing about right, but I did get there.
Now we have two more people telling us about the movie, and getting them to show it will be quite the trick. Anyone have thoughts on other ways to explain pacing?
Monday, October 1, 2007
Criticising Babies
*Big eyeballs*
-The Group, as the pile of submissions grew and grew
What happens when there are five weeks between writers' group meetings? Well, everyone has plenty of time to do four critiques and then do a ton of writing. Yesterday pretty much everyone had something to submit. In one case, he had two somethings, but we managed to talk him down. We all went home with what is, as far as I can remember, the biggest pile of submissions since I've been in the group. It'll be an interesting month of reading and critiquing all of them.
Also interesting was how the gal who's a newer member, and first time submitter, came up to me after the meeting and told me she was scared of my impending critique. Jenny's too, but mostly mine. Good to know I'm still striking fear into the hearts of people. I never tried to create this evil-incarnate reputation, I swear. (Let me add, though, that when I joked about being mean, she corrected me, "Not mean, honest." She sounded no less anxious, though.)
Of course, this gal's comment about how the novel she's beginning to submit is her baby, combined with her anxiety, briefly raised the question: "Should I go easy on her?" For me, it's not a yes/no answer. If it were, it'd be "no," but it's a bit more layered than that. When I'm critiquing, I try to gear my comments toward the specific writer and their sensitivity.
I'm always honest, but with certain people I limit my criticisms to a few points, whereas with others I just let it all out. I'm much harder on Jenny than just about anyone else. I also know that my toughness with her 1. won't give her a nervous breakdown, 2. will be helpful. See, that second point is the most important one.
Someone who's letting their "baby" out in public for the first time isn't going to be helped by a nit-picky critique. Also, there's the global vs. local argument: Why bother pointing out typos when the whole paragraph is going to be rewritten, or possibly cut?
When it comes to the new gal, I can honestly say I have no intention of going "easy" on her. However, I'm not going to critique her the way I'd critique Oliver either. It's all about trying to do the most good for each person, right? An in-exact science, to be sure, but one worth trying.
Do the rest of y'all do the same thing?
-The Group, as the pile of submissions grew and grew
What happens when there are five weeks between writers' group meetings? Well, everyone has plenty of time to do four critiques and then do a ton of writing. Yesterday pretty much everyone had something to submit. In one case, he had two somethings, but we managed to talk him down. We all went home with what is, as far as I can remember, the biggest pile of submissions since I've been in the group. It'll be an interesting month of reading and critiquing all of them.
Also interesting was how the gal who's a newer member, and first time submitter, came up to me after the meeting and told me she was scared of my impending critique. Jenny's too, but mostly mine. Good to know I'm still striking fear into the hearts of people. I never tried to create this evil-incarnate reputation, I swear. (Let me add, though, that when I joked about being mean, she corrected me, "Not mean, honest." She sounded no less anxious, though.)
Of course, this gal's comment about how the novel she's beginning to submit is her baby, combined with her anxiety, briefly raised the question: "Should I go easy on her?" For me, it's not a yes/no answer. If it were, it'd be "no," but it's a bit more layered than that. When I'm critiquing, I try to gear my comments toward the specific writer and their sensitivity.
I'm always honest, but with certain people I limit my criticisms to a few points, whereas with others I just let it all out. I'm much harder on Jenny than just about anyone else. I also know that my toughness with her 1. won't give her a nervous breakdown, 2. will be helpful. See, that second point is the most important one.
Someone who's letting their "baby" out in public for the first time isn't going to be helped by a nit-picky critique. Also, there's the global vs. local argument: Why bother pointing out typos when the whole paragraph is going to be rewritten, or possibly cut?
When it comes to the new gal, I can honestly say I have no intention of going "easy" on her. However, I'm not going to critique her the way I'd critique Oliver either. It's all about trying to do the most good for each person, right? An in-exact science, to be sure, but one worth trying.
Do the rest of y'all do the same thing?
Friday, September 28, 2007
New Blog
"I know we've all been saying forever how we needed a space (virtually or in reality) to share our writing and keep the momentum going from our old Keppy-run workshops. So, here's a space."
-Lydia
After everyone got their bachelors and scattered, it's been tough keeping in touch with all the neat people from school. However, it's about to get much easier. Lydia's set up a group blog for the gang, and I'm looking forward to seeing it get going. Check it out: http://pueblodiasporawritersalliance.blogspot.com/
-Lydia
After everyone got their bachelors and scattered, it's been tough keeping in touch with all the neat people from school. However, it's about to get much easier. Lydia's set up a group blog for the gang, and I'm looking forward to seeing it get going. Check it out: http://pueblodiasporawritersalliance.blogspot.com/
Wednesday, August 8, 2007
Good News
"Alas, with school beginning soon and a Monday class, I doubt I'll be seeing the rogue gang again any time soon."
-Me
Now I feel a tad silly. I was sure I had class on Monday, but when I checked my schedule it turns out I was mistaken. Class is Tuesday. Whups. Aside from feeling foolish, I'm also pleased as this means I will be able to meet up with the rogues during the semester. Cheers.
-Me
Now I feel a tad silly. I was sure I had class on Monday, but when I checked my schedule it turns out I was mistaken. Class is Tuesday. Whups. Aside from feeling foolish, I'm also pleased as this means I will be able to meet up with the rogues during the semester. Cheers.
Tuesday, August 7, 2007
Some Highlights
"I'm not a microwave. I'm a crockpot."
-John (Talking about writing process, a la my fermentation comment - apparently a crockpot is a more wholesome writing analogy than rotting)
"Sign my green bean."
-Jenny (Talking about the possibility of Joss Whedon being the keynote speaker at a local writing conference dinner)
"She didn't used to be like that."
-Shane (Re: my demonic nature)
"We all have to be someone's demon."
-D.B.
"Red heads are always whores or bitches."
-Fleur
"My neice, who's sixteen, came to the house at seven o'clock in the morning because JC Penney's was opening. This was very exciting."
-Mary (Talking about a recent trip back to her hometown, which is small)
I have to say, these people I know are just slightly off-bubble. Just ever so little. Great fun to hang around and chat with, though. Alas, with school beginning soon and a Monday class, I doubt I'll be seeing the rogue gang again any time soon. I always love it when the new semester starts and all of a sudden the life is sucked out of all my nights. It's great.
-John (Talking about writing process, a la my fermentation comment - apparently a crockpot is a more wholesome writing analogy than rotting)
"Sign my green bean."
-Jenny (Talking about the possibility of Joss Whedon being the keynote speaker at a local writing conference dinner)
"She didn't used to be like that."
-Shane (Re: my demonic nature)
"We all have to be someone's demon."
-D.B.
"Red heads are always whores or bitches."
-Fleur
"My neice, who's sixteen, came to the house at seven o'clock in the morning because JC Penney's was opening. This was very exciting."
-Mary (Talking about a recent trip back to her hometown, which is small)
I have to say, these people I know are just slightly off-bubble. Just ever so little. Great fun to hang around and chat with, though. Alas, with school beginning soon and a Monday class, I doubt I'll be seeing the rogue gang again any time soon. I always love it when the new semester starts and all of a sudden the life is sucked out of all my nights. It's great.
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
Taking Feedback (Ownership)
"I have to wait a few days, until after I stop hating the people who said it's not perfect, before I can go back to a piece and start to agree with them."
-paraphrase, Jenny
Okay, I've talked about how I give feedback/criticism. It's only fair to talk about how I take it. The truth, you may be disappointed to know, is that I'm usually not bothered by it. My character's motivation isn't clear? Okay, I'll fix it. I've got a logic problem? Oops. Better change that. You hate it with a passion? Hrm... dunno if there's anything I can do about that.
Jenny calls it my poker face. I talk very little when I'm getting critiques. On one hand, because anything I didn't make clear in the piece, as it's written, isn't going to get any clearer in the piece, as it's written, if I explain it verbally. On the other, let's be honest: it doesn't matter what I have to say about it. As soon as I ask other people to read a story, it doesn't belong to me anymore. Said story belongs to the reader. If I wanted to keep it, I should have kept it to myself.
In this perspective, anyone is completely justified in thinking/saying whatever they want about my work, because it's their story now. Sound extreme? Perhaps. Be an English major for a while, that'll help. It doesn't matter what Hemingway thought about Hills Like White Elephants because we own it now, not him. So, I think the reviewing process from that angle. Anything I write needs to be able to stand without me.
I admit, I'm not always passifistic. There are times when I'm getting a critique and think, "Um, no. You're totally wrong." There are times when I refuse to change things just because someone suggested it. Let's face it, not every person is the ideal audience for every work of literature. Sometimes, try as they might, guys have a hard time liking Chic Lit. It's not a shortcoming of either author or said guy, it's just a bad match.
So, if I find myself flat out disagreeing with a critique, I don't worry about it. It's not my fault, it's not their fault, it's just a bad match. So what if Jenny and Oliver are actually agreeing on something, and that something is what's wrong with my story. It's my story, dangit. But wait, didn't I just get into a spiel about how it's not? Whups. Then again, I can justify.
The reader owns the story when they're reading and thinking about something I've written. It's theirs completely. However, I own the story when I'm writing and revising it. So, whatever they think, it's my choice how to revise. The reader owns the product. The writer owns the process. That's where I see the balance and the reason I've got thick skin when I'm being critiqued.
How about you? How do you take criticism? How do you see the reader/writer ownership question? Who does a work of fiction really belong to?
-paraphrase, Jenny
Okay, I've talked about how I give feedback/criticism. It's only fair to talk about how I take it. The truth, you may be disappointed to know, is that I'm usually not bothered by it. My character's motivation isn't clear? Okay, I'll fix it. I've got a logic problem? Oops. Better change that. You hate it with a passion? Hrm... dunno if there's anything I can do about that.
Jenny calls it my poker face. I talk very little when I'm getting critiques. On one hand, because anything I didn't make clear in the piece, as it's written, isn't going to get any clearer in the piece, as it's written, if I explain it verbally. On the other, let's be honest: it doesn't matter what I have to say about it. As soon as I ask other people to read a story, it doesn't belong to me anymore. Said story belongs to the reader. If I wanted to keep it, I should have kept it to myself.
In this perspective, anyone is completely justified in thinking/saying whatever they want about my work, because it's their story now. Sound extreme? Perhaps. Be an English major for a while, that'll help. It doesn't matter what Hemingway thought about Hills Like White Elephants because we own it now, not him. So, I think the reviewing process from that angle. Anything I write needs to be able to stand without me.
I admit, I'm not always passifistic. There are times when I'm getting a critique and think, "Um, no. You're totally wrong." There are times when I refuse to change things just because someone suggested it. Let's face it, not every person is the ideal audience for every work of literature. Sometimes, try as they might, guys have a hard time liking Chic Lit. It's not a shortcoming of either author or said guy, it's just a bad match.
So, if I find myself flat out disagreeing with a critique, I don't worry about it. It's not my fault, it's not their fault, it's just a bad match. So what if Jenny and Oliver are actually agreeing on something, and that something is what's wrong with my story. It's my story, dangit. But wait, didn't I just get into a spiel about how it's not? Whups. Then again, I can justify.
The reader owns the story when they're reading and thinking about something I've written. It's theirs completely. However, I own the story when I'm writing and revising it. So, whatever they think, it's my choice how to revise. The reader owns the product. The writer owns the process. That's where I see the balance and the reason I've got thick skin when I'm being critiqued.
How about you? How do you take criticism? How do you see the reader/writer ownership question? Who does a work of fiction really belong to?
Giving Feedback
"You are the toughest critic in the group."
-paraphrase, Marie
Sunday was the writers group meeting and at dinner afterward, we got to talking about the group's dynamics. My demonic nature came up, and then a few of the folks added that I'm also the one who tends to be the hardest on a given piece of work. Marie also commented that, if she could survive my critique, she could survive anyone else's. They meant it in a kind and gentle fashion, with lots of love and no mention of bodily harm. They also mentioned that I say a lot of positive things in critiques too, but there's always the "but." Food for thought.
I started to think about my reasons for being so tough on people. I think it's mostly one, a golden rule sort of approach, "Review as ye would be reviewed." I tend to be merciless on my own work, willing to hack away, chop with abandon, and completely change characters/settings/structure/etc. I give credit to David for at least some of this.
For instance, one semester I did an independent study with him where I wrote a handful of stories based on mythological templates, i.e. my version of the story of Ganesh. He read the rough draft of that story and, instead of saying, "Okay, this scene could be tighter, and I want more of X here," he said, "Okay. What I want to you to now is set this draft aside. Don't look at it. Then, rewrite the story." At first I was a bit flabbergasted. What? I had to rewrite it from scratch?! He explained the logic though - by doing a blind rewrite, I'd lose the least memorable parts of the story and keep the best.
The main part I remember was that I had a scene where the main character has an argument with his dad. It was I think two and a half pages of dialogue. I loved it, I thought the dialogue was great. The only problem was I couldn't remember it verbatim. So what was a 2+ page chunk of dialogue became about half a page long. The kicker - it still said everything it needed to, but said it better.
David wasn't afraid to demand "impossible" things from his students. On more than one of my poems, he said "Alright, it's not bad, but it doesn't really get good until the last stanza. So, cut the other six, make the last one your first of a new poem, and go." The impossible things he demanded from me have made me a much better writer than I would be otherwise. He was very rarely "satisfied" with what I did, but because of it, he forced me to always improve.
As far as blame goes for me being a demanding reviewer, I share it with him. I know how much his high standards helped me, so I have a thought that mine might help someone else. Besides: if everyone else in the group disagrees with me, then by all means, the writer is free to as well. I just like to find ways to up the ante, so to speak. If it's a good story, then good, but what if it could be a great one?
What kind of a reviewer are you? What do you think are the most important things you can do/say in a critique? Why? How did you develop your approach?
-paraphrase, Marie
Sunday was the writers group meeting and at dinner afterward, we got to talking about the group's dynamics. My demonic nature came up, and then a few of the folks added that I'm also the one who tends to be the hardest on a given piece of work. Marie also commented that, if she could survive my critique, she could survive anyone else's. They meant it in a kind and gentle fashion, with lots of love and no mention of bodily harm. They also mentioned that I say a lot of positive things in critiques too, but there's always the "but." Food for thought.
I started to think about my reasons for being so tough on people. I think it's mostly one, a golden rule sort of approach, "Review as ye would be reviewed." I tend to be merciless on my own work, willing to hack away, chop with abandon, and completely change characters/settings/structure/etc. I give credit to David for at least some of this.
For instance, one semester I did an independent study with him where I wrote a handful of stories based on mythological templates, i.e. my version of the story of Ganesh. He read the rough draft of that story and, instead of saying, "Okay, this scene could be tighter, and I want more of X here," he said, "Okay. What I want to you to now is set this draft aside. Don't look at it. Then, rewrite the story." At first I was a bit flabbergasted. What? I had to rewrite it from scratch?! He explained the logic though - by doing a blind rewrite, I'd lose the least memorable parts of the story and keep the best.
The main part I remember was that I had a scene where the main character has an argument with his dad. It was I think two and a half pages of dialogue. I loved it, I thought the dialogue was great. The only problem was I couldn't remember it verbatim. So what was a 2+ page chunk of dialogue became about half a page long. The kicker - it still said everything it needed to, but said it better.
David wasn't afraid to demand "impossible" things from his students. On more than one of my poems, he said "Alright, it's not bad, but it doesn't really get good until the last stanza. So, cut the other six, make the last one your first of a new poem, and go." The impossible things he demanded from me have made me a much better writer than I would be otherwise. He was very rarely "satisfied" with what I did, but because of it, he forced me to always improve.
As far as blame goes for me being a demanding reviewer, I share it with him. I know how much his high standards helped me, so I have a thought that mine might help someone else. Besides: if everyone else in the group disagrees with me, then by all means, the writer is free to as well. I just like to find ways to up the ante, so to speak. If it's a good story, then good, but what if it could be a great one?
What kind of a reviewer are you? What do you think are the most important things you can do/say in a critique? Why? How did you develop your approach?
Monday, July 23, 2007
They Call Me Ali-Demon For a Reason
"I'll think about it."
-John
My dearest Jenny has given me a hellish nickname. I don't think I quite deserve being called a demon, but I've gotten used to it. Friday night, Deb even mentioned how Jenny had thought of naming baby #2 after me because of all the grief he/she's giving her in utero. You know, I think I'd be fine with that. Though, I think a name like Ali-demon might cause trouble for the tot in school.
I suppose you're wondering where the name came from. Well, the short of it is that in a writing community there are important roles we adopt in order to support and encourage each other. You have people who are great at cheering you on (cheerleaders), who have a sharp eye for technical stuff (editors), who can immediately see where you went wrong and how you can fix it (fixers), and people who have excellent suggestions for exercises to try in order to get around a writing problem - like writing it in a different P.O.V. or such (coaches). There are more roles than I've listed, and most people don't just fulfill one.
The reason I'm called Ali-Demon isn't because of one of the fore-mentioned roles, but because I'm a nag. Currently, there are two people who bear the brunt of my demon nature. First off is Jenny, of course. She's one of my favorite writers (Or, as Whitakker would point out - a writer I favor), and if I make a habit of demanding new work from her, I usually get it. I love sending her e-mails asking how she's doing on the new story she's going to submit this month. I've been on Jenny's case for a long time now, a year? Two? I can't remember. Long enough for the nick name, anyhow. Speaking of which, I had better remind her that I'm still waiting on the rest of her novel manuscript...
The second person who I've turned my demonic eye on is John from work. I've been working on him to come and visit the CSFWG for literally a few months. He keeps wussing out on me, "I'm not ready to show it to other people," but I think I'm making headway. For one, after looking over my comments on his first three chapters, he says he doesn't think I'm evil. Granted, he may be lying, but since he never actually threw anything or cussed at me on Saturday, I'm going to believe him. For another, I've been emphasizing that he wouldn't have to submit anything from the novel if he didn't want to. That the important thing is meeting other writers and having some practice critiquing other people's work.
With the next writers group meeting this weekend, we once again come to the point where either he'll wuss out or cowboy up. Hrm... Does it sound like I'm being hard on him? No malice intended, I promise, but he's an ex-marine, he can take it. My other plan is to take him to the less-intimidating rogue writers group as a way of easing him into it.
If nothing else, I figure he'll eventually come along one of these times simply for the sake of shutting me up. It's not the most elegant strategy, but that's not what's important. What's important is that it tends to work. Thus, the nickname.
-John
My dearest Jenny has given me a hellish nickname. I don't think I quite deserve being called a demon, but I've gotten used to it. Friday night, Deb even mentioned how Jenny had thought of naming baby #2 after me because of all the grief he/she's giving her in utero. You know, I think I'd be fine with that. Though, I think a name like Ali-demon might cause trouble for the tot in school.
I suppose you're wondering where the name came from. Well, the short of it is that in a writing community there are important roles we adopt in order to support and encourage each other. You have people who are great at cheering you on (cheerleaders), who have a sharp eye for technical stuff (editors), who can immediately see where you went wrong and how you can fix it (fixers), and people who have excellent suggestions for exercises to try in order to get around a writing problem - like writing it in a different P.O.V. or such (coaches). There are more roles than I've listed, and most people don't just fulfill one.
The reason I'm called Ali-Demon isn't because of one of the fore-mentioned roles, but because I'm a nag. Currently, there are two people who bear the brunt of my demon nature. First off is Jenny, of course. She's one of my favorite writers (Or, as Whitakker would point out - a writer I favor), and if I make a habit of demanding new work from her, I usually get it. I love sending her e-mails asking how she's doing on the new story she's going to submit this month. I've been on Jenny's case for a long time now, a year? Two? I can't remember. Long enough for the nick name, anyhow. Speaking of which, I had better remind her that I'm still waiting on the rest of her novel manuscript...
The second person who I've turned my demonic eye on is John from work. I've been working on him to come and visit the CSFWG for literally a few months. He keeps wussing out on me, "I'm not ready to show it to other people," but I think I'm making headway. For one, after looking over my comments on his first three chapters, he says he doesn't think I'm evil. Granted, he may be lying, but since he never actually threw anything or cussed at me on Saturday, I'm going to believe him. For another, I've been emphasizing that he wouldn't have to submit anything from the novel if he didn't want to. That the important thing is meeting other writers and having some practice critiquing other people's work.
With the next writers group meeting this weekend, we once again come to the point where either he'll wuss out or cowboy up. Hrm... Does it sound like I'm being hard on him? No malice intended, I promise, but he's an ex-marine, he can take it. My other plan is to take him to the less-intimidating rogue writers group as a way of easing him into it.
If nothing else, I figure he'll eventually come along one of these times simply for the sake of shutting me up. It's not the most elegant strategy, but that's not what's important. What's important is that it tends to work. Thus, the nickname.
Monday, July 16, 2007
Blue Frustration
"...she closed her right hand tight. The blue line of her scar curled into a half moon."
-from the untitled story
I'm having a hard time with this one. I like the jist of the idea, especially the mechanics of how removing a memory works. I just can't help but feel that there's a loose edge somewhere, and I can't quite see it to fix the damn thing. Not helping my problem is that I can't get a title for it. I know when a story is done because I kind of hear a "click" in my head. It's the sound of everything belonging (more or less) right where it is. This story hasn't made that sound yet, and I'm getting frustrated because I don't know what to fix.
Granted, this is the beauty of a critique group because these kinds of problems tend to be completely obvious to anyone who isn't the author. I'm sure that I'll fight with it over the next few days, trying to get it fixed up for the writers group, then they'll all read it and say, "Look, here's your problem" and then I'll smack my forehead and say "Doh" 'cause it'll be blaringly obvious. *Sigh* Doesn't mean I'm going to stop torturing myself about it, though.
Today, in keeping with my recent trend of writing outside the house, I'm headed somewhere after I'm done on campus to do some revising. I think I'll end up at a fast food place, since no one there cares how long you stay. Then again, maybe The Daily Grind would be better - a coffee shop w/a very artistic feel, thanks to the local art on the walls. Dang it, I think I'm going to have to take up drinking coffee since I'm starting to like the coffee shops so much.
As an homage to Deb, I think I'll start including some goals on this blog. To start off, my goal for today is to read & do some marking up on three stories I've printed out: the unnamed one, An Ocean Kind of Blue, and one called And He Knows Me which is a few years old.
-from the untitled story
I'm having a hard time with this one. I like the jist of the idea, especially the mechanics of how removing a memory works. I just can't help but feel that there's a loose edge somewhere, and I can't quite see it to fix the damn thing. Not helping my problem is that I can't get a title for it. I know when a story is done because I kind of hear a "click" in my head. It's the sound of everything belonging (more or less) right where it is. This story hasn't made that sound yet, and I'm getting frustrated because I don't know what to fix.
Granted, this is the beauty of a critique group because these kinds of problems tend to be completely obvious to anyone who isn't the author. I'm sure that I'll fight with it over the next few days, trying to get it fixed up for the writers group, then they'll all read it and say, "Look, here's your problem" and then I'll smack my forehead and say "Doh" 'cause it'll be blaringly obvious. *Sigh* Doesn't mean I'm going to stop torturing myself about it, though.
Today, in keeping with my recent trend of writing outside the house, I'm headed somewhere after I'm done on campus to do some revising. I think I'll end up at a fast food place, since no one there cares how long you stay. Then again, maybe The Daily Grind would be better - a coffee shop w/a very artistic feel, thanks to the local art on the walls. Dang it, I think I'm going to have to take up drinking coffee since I'm starting to like the coffee shops so much.
As an homage to Deb, I think I'll start including some goals on this blog. To start off, my goal for today is to read & do some marking up on three stories I've printed out: the unnamed one, An Ocean Kind of Blue, and one called And He Knows Me which is a few years old.
Tuesday, July 3, 2007
Rogue Writers Group
"It's all about me."
-Deb, last night at the coffee shop
There's the CSFWG and there's the rogue group, made up of people who've come through (or are still in) the CSFWG. The meetings happen twice a month and are much more informal. Usually, thanks to either class or work, I can't go. Last night was an exception, and quite fun.
Deb's book, MMG, was the topic of a lot of discussion - what's working, what could work better, etc. The neat thing was the way that everyone was saying the same things, like "There are so many characters, I'm losing track of who's who," and "The way you introduced the character S-- was brilliant!"
It's crazy. You take a group of people of different ages, professions, and from different backgrounds and have them all read the same book, and they all come to about the same conclusions. Weird stuff, I'm tellin' ya.
-Deb, last night at the coffee shop
There's the CSFWG and there's the rogue group, made up of people who've come through (or are still in) the CSFWG. The meetings happen twice a month and are much more informal. Usually, thanks to either class or work, I can't go. Last night was an exception, and quite fun.
Deb's book, MMG, was the topic of a lot of discussion - what's working, what could work better, etc. The neat thing was the way that everyone was saying the same things, like "There are so many characters, I'm losing track of who's who," and "The way you introduced the character S-- was brilliant!"
It's crazy. You take a group of people of different ages, professions, and from different backgrounds and have them all read the same book, and they all come to about the same conclusions. Weird stuff, I'm tellin' ya.
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
'Round and 'Round She Goes
"Ah," I said in that way I do.
-Oliver, from My Life With Lefties, chapter one
A few months ago, at the post-writers group meeting dinner, we got onto the topic of collaboration, and a romance novel Jenny initiated a few years ago during an English majors night out. It was hilarious because each person would write just up to the point of the scene getting steamy, then pass it on to the next person who would some how diffuse the scene (usually with some kind of interruption) and write just up to the steamy part again.
Thus, the idea of writing a round story/novel was born. Well, we're about four chapters in, and now I'm the one to do number five. It should be interesting.
-Oliver, from My Life With Lefties, chapter one
A few months ago, at the post-writers group meeting dinner, we got onto the topic of collaboration, and a romance novel Jenny initiated a few years ago during an English majors night out. It was hilarious because each person would write just up to the point of the scene getting steamy, then pass it on to the next person who would some how diffuse the scene (usually with some kind of interruption) and write just up to the steamy part again.
Thus, the idea of writing a round story/novel was born. Well, we're about four chapters in, and now I'm the one to do number five. It should be interesting.
Monday, June 25, 2007
Writers Groups
"Good writers travel in packs."
-Dan Lazar
Being part of a writers group is one of the best things I do for my writing. Thanks to workshops at school and the CSFWG, my writing has improved beyond where it could ever have gotten with me on my own.
Beyond the technical advantages, though, is the advantage of having cheerleaders and friends. I thought about skipping the writers group meeting yesterday, thanks to the break-up, but figured it'd be far better for me to go than it would be for me to sit home alone all day. Turns out, I was right. By the time I left Springs to come home, not only had my funk lifted, I was actually in a good mood.
The writers I know are good people, and funny. Hanging around with them for a number of hours while everyone else at Red Robin slowly trickled out and all of our butts started to get sore was just what I needed.
Advice for anyone thinking about joining a writers group or taking a workshop: do it. A number of my favorite people, like Deb and Jenny, are people I've met doing just that.
-Dan Lazar
Being part of a writers group is one of the best things I do for my writing. Thanks to workshops at school and the CSFWG, my writing has improved beyond where it could ever have gotten with me on my own.
Beyond the technical advantages, though, is the advantage of having cheerleaders and friends. I thought about skipping the writers group meeting yesterday, thanks to the break-up, but figured it'd be far better for me to go than it would be for me to sit home alone all day. Turns out, I was right. By the time I left Springs to come home, not only had my funk lifted, I was actually in a good mood.
The writers I know are good people, and funny. Hanging around with them for a number of hours while everyone else at Red Robin slowly trickled out and all of our butts started to get sore was just what I needed.
Advice for anyone thinking about joining a writers group or taking a workshop: do it. A number of my favorite people, like Deb and Jenny, are people I've met doing just that.
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